I got the letter from SJP this morning inviting me and my son to apply for a seat in the upper, Milburn stand, Upper SJH stand , Sports bar or Bar 1992. YES, no more years of begging and borrowing others for spare tickets I am SO HAPPY , but a little worried that there may still be not enough to go around. The letter said that all applications would be dealt with on a first come first served basis. If I don't get one now I'll throw myself off the Tyne bridge. How am I gonna sleep for the next few weeks? -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 11, 2000  Stop posting and get yer letter in fast then if it's first come, first served :)) -- Gav (gavin_herron@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.  If the rest of the ST's are being released on a first come first served basis it begs the question as to how many Season Tickets are to be sold? Away allocation is / should be 10% under EPL regs so thats about 5190 leaving 46710 for NUFC fans. I hope everyone who wants one gets a season ticket. -- De Builder (debuilder@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.  I got a letter on Saturday so they don't seem to be working down the waiting list in order if you only got yours today. -- Steph (Steph@thegallowgate.com), July 11, 2000.   Mine came Saturday as well and I've only been on the list for about 6 mths.....you'd better hand deliver the application Rik.... -- Gav (gavin_herron@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.  HANDS UP WHO REALISTICALLY THINKS WE WILL SELL ALL THE SEAT ALLOCATION ? -- Sting (a1georgyboy@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.  Unlikely, Sting, but you never know. -- Dougal (lyndawright@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000   Hopefully I'll be getting a letter sometime this week then. I've been on the list for just over a year. Of course by the time I get anything and reply, they'll probably tell me they've only got the expensive seats left. *sigh* -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 11, 2000. Hang on a minute, why didn't I get a letter at the same time as everyone else? This just isn't fair is it? No disrespect to anyone but if you've been on file for 6 years you would expect to get first choice of seats over those on the list for a year or two. The way it's looking I'll be way down the list as they will only get my applications tomorrow (we posted them off this morning) and now I may even not get one. The letter was dated 6th July and it only arrived today, Strange all my other mail arrived Ok on Saturday and Monday ?  Where is everyone applying for? I've applied for two in the upper Milburn. Last year the club said there were 16,000 on the waiting list. This will have risen by the likes of Gav and others who only applied in the last few months, So if there are 20,000 chasing 10,000 seats then there could be a 1 in 2 chance. This morning I was soooooo happy , now I've Sooooo depressed. What a ****** pathetic way to allocate new seats, they go on about trying to start to get on better with the fans, then they do this... -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 11, 2000.  A wild shot in the dark which may rely on common sense, sorry better make that very wild. But they might want to get all the applications in from the waiting list and then allocate them on the relative position from the waiting list. Rik if you want tickets for the Upper Milburn, they may group you with the rest of those applicants that want the Upper Milburn. You would probably have a number which would indicate how long you've been on their list, so they'll bang these numbers on a spreadsheet and do a sort and give them to the people with the smallest numbers. i.e. No. 1 would be the first person on the waiting list.   Nah can't be that simple can it? I haven't though about this much so there are probably a few flaws in this method! -- De Builder (debuilder@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.  I would have thought they'd sell the crap seats first then be left with the better ones which would be more marketable. Hence the box office line of you cannot see where you being seated because of the building work. By the way Rik what is your number? mine is 33,**2 which has changed from 33,**4 since Feb last year. I 've been on the list since May 1994 having been able to pay on the day before that. -- Tony (Tony@thegallowgate.com), July 11, 2000.  33,**4!!!! Surely not the number of people on the waiting list?!!! -- De Builder (debuilder@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.   Thers a lot of people boycotting their tickets this season over the SOS campaign ... every chance of getting one in my eyes . -- Sting (a1georgyboy@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000. I'm sure Debuilder is right Rik - they will wish to get in all the applications in at once to assess total demand. The 'allocation' of tickets can then be done as they feel appropriate. If the number of applications is less than the number of available seats, then there simply isn't a problem.   I'd be amazed if your application wasn't successful.   When I was at SJP selecting my 2nd seat in April, they told me they were hoping to keep 3,000 seats/tickets available for sale on a match by match basis, but I'm sure this could be reduced somewhat, as necessary. BTW, ALL of the best seats had already been allocated back in April - including all of the front few rows and all the way to the back of the Milburn top tier on the halfway line. -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 11, 2000.   Is there a system to the waiting list numbering? I'm 314,***.   Anyway, Rik, I don't think you have to worry. Was it Debuilder that made the point that the club may just be getting all apps in, then allocating based on list number? Makes sense since there isn't very long before the season starts. They probably don't really have time to send out one wave of letters, wait for response, allocate tickets, then send out the next wave, etc. -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 11, 2000.   Well, there's probably an alphabet and surname issue. -- Dougal (lyndawright@hotmail.com), July 11, 2000.   I am concerned because I got my application form 3 days after most other people. It says on the bottom. "I must stress that tickets for all our new facilities are limited and are being sold on a first come, first served basis (the new family enclose for instance is sold out) So please send in your application as soon as possible ...blah....blah....blah... because the number of seats is limited we can't guarantee you a seat, but the sooner you apply the greater chances of success." signed Russell Cushing.... SO I get my application in 3 days later than someone on the list for 6 months rather than 6 years and I don't get a seat? Fair? Rogan Taylor will be hearing about this... -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 11, 2000.   Tell SOS not to hoy them plastic buckets out yet! -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 11, 2000. Rik, if it`s any consolation, I have been on the list for over four years, and Yelli for at least 18 months, so far we haven`t received our applications. Mind you, when everyone was given bar code numbers, we didn`t get them either, and had to write to them again for ours. (which no doubt shuffled us back to the end of the queue!)   Having said that, and after long and soul searching discussions, we have both decided that we just wont be in a position to take up the option, when and if it arrives. Yelli`s new job is going to entail quite a bit of travel, and I am campaigning a dog this year, so quite a number of the home matches would be out for us anyway. I think the best thing we can do is play it by ear this year, and hope we can get tickets for the games we are free to attend. -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   They can't possibly be as clueless as they appear, can they ?   I've been on the list at least 4 years, and no sign of an application form. And my num's up in the 70odd thous, so where the logic is in the number system is beyond me. On the strength of some of the postings on here, I rang to check why no form. The guy asked my number, checked his screen or whatever, and, with no prompting from me, came back with exactly the right details, and the bleat 'Sorry mate, there doesn't appear to be any reason why you should have been missed out. Your best bet is to get a hand written application in ASAP, cos there's only the back of the SJH extension left now.' So I knocked off work sooner than I intended to get to the ground before they shut up shop with a hand written application. Effing typical. They must have somebody monitoring this and have got a pet lip on over my frequently expressed loathing of Freddie For the good it'll do, I'm following up with a snotty letter. I know. I know - it'll be a complete waste of time, and if it wasn't for the fact that the players have nowt to do with how shitty the organisation is, I'd be tempted to tell them to stick their season ticket That would show them, and no mistake. Useless bast@rds. -- Pit Bill (pit_bill@yahoo.com), July 12, 2000. Have to say, Pit Bill, it does make a total mockery of bothering to have a waiting list. May as well just make it a free for all each season! If our applications come through, you`re welcome to them, I think we are no more, or less likely to get season tickets next year, if it becomes feasible for us to do so.(:o| -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   Woah! only 1 row left?!?! Shit I hope Rik got his seats or there'll be trouble..... -- Gav (gavin_herron@hotmail.com), July 12, 2000. Pit Bill, I know Rik has already written a 'sharp' letter to Rogan Taylor over what is beginning to shape up as yet another farce. Could I suggest you do likewise - I'm sure Mr. Taylor will be thrilled to know that nothing appears to have changed, despite all the rhetoric, and that he faces climbing a mountain of Everest proportions in his new job. -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   I have to say, NUFC could go a long way to help foster good relations with their supporters if they tried to occasionally keep them in the picture! They have an official site that has had the same season ticket information on for months and months now. The site is dreadfully impersonal, and needs to be a lot more pro-active. An update on the season ticket situation would have been very useful. Anybody looked on their chat page lately? I find it so tedious I never bother. (:o| -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   Clarky, In my naivety, I decided to write in the first instance to the manager of the box office, but I think I'll run off another copy of the letter and send it to this Rogan Josh guy.   Galaxy, Thanks for the offer, I'll hang fire for a couple of days though, to see if there's any response to what I've already done. Agree wholeheartedly with your comments on the official site, and it would be so easy for it to be otherwise. They appear to give just lip service to wanting good relations with the fans. Trouble is, it's like being in the trenches - you're sorry for the guy next to you who gets blown away, but over the moon it didn't happen to you. And I'm starting to feel blown away. Just hope Rik's not celebrating prematurely -- Pit Bill (pit_bill@yahoo.com), July 12, 2000.   Rik won`t be a happy bunny - that`s for sure! {:o| -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   Another fine shambles brought to you by NUFC. *sigh* Good luck to Rogan in trying to sort the mess out. Someone's got to do it. I'd really love to spend a few days as a fly on the wall in the offices to see what is really going on. It seems like nobody is really in charge of non-playing matters, or else they do things without thinking it through and planning. The ST allocation and the web site. Neither one is brain surgery so it really boggles my mind that they appear to make such a hash of basic supporter relation tools. :-/ -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.  Ciara, why don't you write to them and offer to do the web site for them? It would get you a job and we would have a site worth visiting! PS I dropped the application in at lunchtime - fingers crossed! -- Steph (Steph@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.   At least people are panicking that they might not get a seat, rather than about the club not selling all their tickets (as they are at some clubs not a million miles away). It's almost certainly part of the problem and always has been - complacency because of a captive audience/inflexible demand. -- Windy (pete_s_miller20@hotmail.com), July 12, 2000. Actually, I have been meaning to write to Rogan Taylor about it. I've offered suggestions and my services to the club and got nowhere. Maybe this guy can at least take all the suggestions on board and make one solid case to the club. I doubt I'd get a job with the club. And if things really are as disorganized as it seems, not sure I'd really want to work for them. I have very little tolerance for corporate nonsense. -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.   I think NTL will be taking that part of the business in hand and will hopefully make a better fist of it. -- Dougal (lyndawright@hotmail.com), July 12, 2000. NTL already has taken over the site from Planetonline. They just seem even less inclined to do anything with it. So where's NTL's offices located? I feel another job application coming on..... ;-) -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.   Mmm. You're not the only one to offer your web services to the club Ciara. As things started to get sticky early on in the Communicata days, I stepped in to try and exert some pressure, as Tony from Communicata privately asked me for some help. In hindsight we can't take anything away from Communicata and how long they helped us out for. As far as I could see (and Communicata didn't divulge anything to me), the feeling was the club fucked them over.   I put a detailed proposal to the club some time ago concerning all aspects of their web activity, and practical ways to help them with their overall systems. Obviously no acknowledgment. As for the arse up over the ticket request forms, just how difficult is it to do a 'select from table waiting_fans 1-20000' and then mail those fans? It would take any competent person who'd been near a database about 12 seconds. F*cking muppets! -- Dunx (dunx@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.   NTL are in charge of all the club's Internet activity and I suspect they will relaunch the websites (I think I read that somewhere like the FT) of the clubs they have bought into... -- Dougal (lyndawright@hotmail.cOM), July 12, 2000.

If it makes anyone feel any better (and it won't except to demonstrate that we aren't alone in being badly treated), a Manc mate has just mailed me to say that they are doing the same at Old Trafford. A woman phoned to ask about membership and was told that if she came down to OT that day she'd get two tickets. People who have been members for ages have heard nothing about their new season tickets. -- Dougal (lyndawright@hotmail.com), July 12, 2000.  At least we'll have a full stadium. Metro Radio are advertising tickets for the Stadium of Sh*te! -- Steph (Steph@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000. Dunx, sorry to hear there was no acknowledgement of your offer. Especially with having closer ties and a well thought out plan. I don't hold much hope of me making any difference either, just a creative writing exercise more like ;-) Sorting out the mess isn't going to happen quickly, if ever. It seems very deep rooted. And certainly not for lack of effort of some people already in there. Our Club United contact seems quite willing and has good ideas, but gets nowhere near the help and support he needs to do a proper job. I'm sure there are others as well. Just that none of them are in charge. :-( -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.   Has anyone had a reply to a letter that they have sent to SJP? I certainly haven`t - I`ve always had to chase them by phone. Mind you, at the other extreme, the last time I went to LeMans was when the NUFC car was making it`s debut. There was very little mention of it in the press, and I rang SJP to see if I could get any info. They new nothing about it, but gave me a phone number to ring for information, which I duly rang, and it was answered by none other than Sir John Hall himself! I felt such a twonk! If only I could have remembered where I put the phone number, we could have had a field day over the past couple of years! As for your suggestions Duncan - well they just don`t know what they have missed do they!(:o) -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   Has anyone had a reply to a letter that they have sent to SJP? I certainly haven`t - I`ve always had to chase them by phone. Mind you, at the other extreme, the last time I went to LeMans was when the NUFC car was making it`s debut. There was very little mention of it in the press, and I rang SJP to see if I could get any info. They new nothing about it, but gave me a phone number to ring for information, which I duly rang, and it was answered by none other than Sir John Hall himself! I felt such a twonk! If only I could have remembered where I put the phone number, we could have had a field day over the past couple of years! As for your suggestions Duncan - well they just don`t know what they have missed do they!(:o) -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   Believe it or not, the only reply I ever got was when I sent a letter to RG just before things went completely pear-shaped. It was from his secretary..but at least it was a reply! -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 12, 2000.   I actually got a telephone call from FF in response to one of my tirades. When my Secretary said FF was on the phone for me I assumed it was a wind-up, and I was so gob-smacked when it actually was him that I was completely tongue-tied and only thought of all the things I wanted to say to him when I'd put the phone down! Probably just as well. I always found SJH and FF attentive to correspondence, even though FF didn't always reply himself - which I happen to believe is incorrect. However, I've written three times to the present Chairman, and never had so much as an acknowledgement - which IMO says everything. -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 12, 2000.   Actually I've always e-mailed the club. And everytime I've got a response. And Mick Wadsworth is a decent enough bloke to correspond with about likely bairns. There you now know my secret into monitoring you English lads. -- Tre (p.kann@student.qut.edu.au), July 13, 2000. Someone from St James' just rang me to tell me that I won't be getting a season ticket next season, as they have sold them to people who have been on the list for 6 months rather than 6 years, Gutted... isn't the word to describe my feelings at the moment. I am considering what action to take, first step was a letter to Liaison officer Rogan Taylor, next step, to see who else this has happened to and publicise it on my site , finally , get in touch with friends at the MAG, Talk of the toon, and the Chronicle. I don't want to get the NOTW in on this, but it really does stink. They sent out (so they say) all the application forms to whoever was on the list on Friday. So how is it my form arrived Tuesday, when most other peoples arrived on Saturday? The footnote said, "be quick they are allocated on a first come first served basis" I just can't believe this. I really can't   -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 14, 2000.   That s*cks, rik! The club probably can't do anything to rectify the situation this year, but if they're smart(stop laughing, it could happen!) they'll find out which waiting listers were left out on this go round, organize them by order of how long they've been on the list, and take it from there properly next year. I know, I know, I'm using logic again, bad me! But...how difficult is it really?? If your letter really was posted on Friday (check the postmark), then there's nothing the club can do if your local post office decided to go on holiday and not deliver on time. if your letter was posted later, you've definitely got a complaint! Still, this situation really should have been handled more efficiently. :-( -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 14, 2000.  Another horrible aspect is that they had clearly lost rik's details when they wrote out for confirmation and his waiting list number when it was readded to the list was one of the seriously recent ones. No care was taken to reinsert his details with the same weighting they should have carried so even if they had distributed them by length of time on the list, rik shows up as an applicant from the last year or so. The fact that it's details from when the list was first drawn up that have gone 'missing' has that horrible ring about it of problems encountered whilst transferring data between databases. I've twice been involved in major transfers between systems when huge amounts of information have ended up corrupted and been destroyed. Like all decent administrators I had kept a paper-trail and was able to reenter the lost information at considerable effort and with extreme annoyance levels - I think the terms 'decent administrators' and 'considerable effort' preclude our Club from this equation, especially when you consider their history with things like the Website where they pay a disinterested third party to run the thing. -- Softie (softie@thegallowgate.com), July 14, 2000.   Thats a damn disgrace Rik! I feel for ya but you're right, it's all about money and they obviously have no sense of integrity at all. But, what are you to do mate, they have control and they know it. Pete -- Pete in Canada (metcalfp@sprint.ca), July 14, 2000 . Rik, it`s just a total disgrace! As you may have seen from my posting, Yelli and I aren`t really in a position to take up the option this year. But, in any case, by the sounds of it, our applications arrived well after most of the rest had gone out. OK, it`s not such a big deal for us - we live on the South Coast for God`s sake, so we were hardly likely to make it to every home game! But I do feel gutted on your behalf. If anyone deserves a season ticket it`s you - such a great ambassador for NUFC - you must be feeling truly deflated. I just hope that you`re lucky and someone doesn`t renew their seats, and that you get really good ones.(:o( -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 14, 2000.   Just out of interest Rik - I received two applications, one made about four years ago, and one about 18 months ago. No postmark on either letter, both arrived yesterday (Thursday 13th). Date on the letter - 6th July. No rhyme or reason to this at all!(:o| -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 14, 2000.  If this situation is accurate, as reported, it is an absolute utter disgrace. Having been one of managements biggest critics post- SJH, I find this display of utter incompetence quite simply beyond comprehension. In ANY other business heads would roll, absolutely no question about it, and this fiasco will take one hell of a lot of explaining. My real thoughts and sympathy are with those, like our Rik, who appear to have been totally and utterly SHAFTED by the Management of our beloved Club. These 'people' have demonstrated once again - despite all their empty rhetoric - they truly don't give a flying f*ck for the everyday fan - who remember is a CUSTOMER of their business. IMHO, if the facts as presented prove accurate, this is one fiasco too far. Something must be done - but right now I'm in shock, and need the facts confirming. I'm still having difficulty believing that even this lot could preside over a cock-up of this magnitude. -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 14, 2000.   I totally agree with you there Clarky. I feel really choked for people like Rik. As I said, it`s not such a big deal for us down here, but for someone who would attend every game, it is a crying shame.(:o| -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 14, 2000. It stinks Rik! Maybe Tre can pass you some of these Email addresses he has (Mick Wadsworth etc). Mind you've probably got more contacts than most of us. Why not add a support page for us to add our Email addresses to on your NTLSPORT page. I really am sick for you. -- Pilgrim (pilgrim@enterprise.net), July 14, 2000.   Galaxy, I hope you'll excuse my anglo-saxon vernacular in my earlier post. I try to avoid gratuitous bad language, but I was (and am) really incensed over this dreadful situation. Apologies to anyone else I may have inadvertently offended. -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 14, 2000.   RIK I hope you don't mind, but I have copied the linked letter you point at and I have sent it in an E Mail to the Web master at NUFC and asked them to forward it to the relevant area for a reply so that we can run the story on the Daily Toon website. I have also copied Rogan Taylor and Bobby Robson into it as someone I spoke to the other day reckoned that he had mailed them at that address and had got replies back....so it is worth a try. I also chucked in my BBC address as that can sometimes 'pull a few strings' - nothing worse than the poss that Anne Robinson could be after them eh! As I said, I hope you don't mind me cutting across you, but as you so rightly say, this is on PR cock-up too far. Watch this space, we'll keep you posted! -- ITK (jestab73@hotmail.com), July 14, 2000. Clarky, a definite reason for strong language, if ever there was one! (and BTW, it`s not unheard of for me to let rip!)(:o) ITK - great ideas! And twee as it sometimes can be, what`s wrong with getting Watchdog involved? It is probably the quickest way to find out how many others have been let down. Rik, after seven years, then this fiasco, I hope they find you seats in the Royal Box (if there is such a thing!)(:o| -- Galaxy (roz.sears@mailbox.co.uk), July 15, 2000.   If you don't mind , i'll be cutting and pasting some of the comments from here onto a web page. I would like to see how many others are affected, so if anyone knows of anyone who has had the application forms sent late, or (like pit_Bill) not had an application form sent to them. I really would like to here about it. Also to Softie on another thread you suggest that it could be something to do with lost details on a database. They did seem to lose my details, but when I queried them in March 1999, they gave me the same number as I had initially had, without me telling them what it was. The same thing happened to Pit Bill, they had his exact number and admitted that they didn't know why he hadn't a form. The numbering system starts at 001 and goes up to over 200,000. My number was in the 80,000s and Bills was in the 70,000s. These are probably season ticket enquiry numbers. The fairest way would have been to send out letters to the 9,000 with the lowest numbers first, and wait for replies, before asking any others higher up the list if they would like to reply. I am considering what to do next, One of the Fanzines is putting the story on the front of his publication next week, The Daily toon are doing their bit, I've yet to hear from The Evening Chronicle or Alan Robson at Metro Radio, and I've lost Mark Jensens (the Mags) mail Address. Any one who knows anyone who may be able to get this some attention please do their bit. the URL again is @ http://www.ntlsports.com -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 15, 2000.   Rik, I'll give you full coverage on the new website that is launched next week. TalkoftheTyne.co.uk Cheers mate. -- kev ( tott@globalnet.co.uk), July 15, 2000.   Rik, I'm still struggling to think what meaningful action could be taken over this crime against some of the most loyal,long-suffering fans. I will probably write to David Stonehouse so that he is at least fully aware of the situation. How do you feel about discussing it with the SOS people? I realise they're not exactly popular on here, but they do have first-hand current experience of dealing with our so-called management (tossers) and might be able to advise on tactics.   I have recently been in communication with a guy who is directly involved in setting up the NUFC Shareholders Trust - I intend to ensure he/they are also aware of this latest fiasco. I know the SOS people have been involved in the Trust discussions, so I could ask this guy to get you a contact with SOS. Let me know if you would like me to go ahead. -- clarky (alan.clark2@cableinet.co.uk), July 15, 2000.   Rik, giving you your original waiting list number back and still screwing it up is unforgiveable. If they are too incompetent to handle a weighting system on a single waiting list (I'm operating 30+ concurrently at work which also involves the same courses being offered in different locations which would be the equivalent of knowing that since an applicant for a season ticket at SJP has taken one at SoL instead I can cross him off the SJp list) then the very least they have to do is ensure that everyone receives the forms on the same day. I have routinely mailed out 16,000 sets of application forms with 2 people helping which involved franking them myself on a manual feed machine so I'm simply not prepared to accept that there is some technical difficulty preventing them doing the same. It's a disgrace. Even worse is that I won't feel comfortable going to the match knowing you deserve to be there ahead of me. Therefore, if you don't receive satisfaction from the club I will sell you mine (at face value of course). I've been on the list a little over 2 years, you've been on for 7. If the poxy club aren't interested in fair play then it's down to us. -- Softie (softie@thegallowgate.com), July 15, 2000.   Rik , Well this is all a bit difficult to take in , but not to comprehend . I think the captive audience nail was hit right on the head . The most unfortunate thing about all this is the apparent fervour with which the team is associated with at the moment , and rhetoric from various quarters that this year NUFC will really complete . I suppose that it makes all this is a little more difficult to bear considering the time and effort put in to get tickets , travel to away and cup games , not forgetting the inevitable trips to wembley and the heartache associated with it all . Im not going to suggest any more methods of getting to the club , as firstly they have been broached , and secondly some routes appear to reap no fruit , ie directly with the officials involved . However your normally happy demeanour seems to have been impregnated with doom and gloom ; and more noticeably i presume has your sons . A day i llok forward to is taking my son/s to see Newcastle play as my father did . The only offer i can make you as an exile is the use of my tickets when i am not around , and genuinely hope you will take up the offer .. scant consolation i know but feel its all that can be offered . Hardly the point i know , and i wish you all the success in the world in getting through to these tyrants . I for one believe that working in a senior role in the ticket office at Newcastle would earn rich rewards from underhand and scurrilous behaviour , and its only too apparent that its rife .... how can that be stopped ? Criminal inquiry perhaps , because that is exactly what this kind of thing is , criminal . Maybe Rogan Taylor could addresse this . I dont know you personally but see the effort you put into all things NUFC and genuinely believ you and your lad should have the chance to watch the Toon together and im sure myself and other BBS'ers will be the first to offer you tickets this season . Good luck . : - ( -- Sting (a1georgyboy@hotmail.com), July 15, 2000.

Haven't had much time to check what's been happening for the last week, then I find this. Can't think of anything to say that hasn't been said before and more eloquently than I could. If I can help in any way, let me know. I know that I'm not going to make all the games this season, so I'll keep you and your lad in mind. -- Tony Green Jnr (Ian.Gregg@btinternet.com), July 15, 2000 . Softie and all, thanks for the kind offers, but I must decline, It's your seat and you are entitled to it. As for Alan's remarks about the SOS, I know Mick Edmonson an SOS campaigner, (recently of Pennyfloaters Euro song fame) very well. I was talking to him in my shop on Wednesday and he couldn't believe that they could / would make such a gaff again. His best mate is Mark Jensen of The Mag, So I reckon they will come out on the side of the fans like myself, who have lost out due to the clubs, uncaring incompedance. Just a footnote, It's my Birtday today and no one bought me a spell chicker. -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 15, 2000.  Feel for you Rik and all in the same boat. We, wor lass and myself are in the same position. Exactly the same thing happened to us - received application forms on Thursday 13th July, letter dated 6th July. We have only been on the waiting list for about 4 years. We have not yet been told of the selling out of the tickets.We cannot believe the incompetence and crassness of the management. We agree that they cannot be allowed to get away with this even though it's sickening to think this will invove our beloved club in more bad publicity. Surely they are guilty of misrepresntation - what does any reasonable person mean by a waiting list if not being dealt with in a chronological sequence. This was not a waiting list but a lottery! It does indicate the need for a supporters representative group as Rogan Taylor is proposing. If this goes ahead, we should ensure that this is the one of the first issues they raise with the Board! -- True (william.foster@brunel.co.uk), July 15, 2000 RIK, It doesn't look good for me cos you put your application in two days before me. BTW (pit) Bill has received his allocation (J 201 in the Milburn Stand if memory serves me right) and your application went before him, that is why I think if you shout loudest you will get satisfaction. It is a terrible thought but it may be the concession ticket that they are dubious of, knowing they could fill it with an adult; short-termism at it's ugliest.At this rate I should find out about mine on Monday, I'll keep you posted. -- Tony (Tony@thegallowgate.com), July 15, 2000 Sounds like a fiasco far bigger than 1 or 2 people 'accidentally' being looked over. Very right to make a lot of noise about it! It would be very interesting to see just how many people this has affected. Especially those who've been on the list for more than a year or two. I've not worked with databases that much, but hearing Softie's explanation makes this situation even more unbelievable. sure the club know they've got a captive audience, but I would hope that the more people speak out about these continuing pr disasters they might actually begin to realize they'll have to clean up their act....and surprise, surprise!..it really wouldn't take much. As I said earlier, the least they can do if there's really no more ST's for this season is to put everyone back on the waiting list IN ORDER so those who've waited longest have first priority on tickets next season. -- Ciara (ciara@thegallowgate.com), July 15, 2000.   Like everyone on here, I'm in shock. And I am SO Angry I can't believe it. At their lack of consciousness. At their lack of professionalism and ineptitude. How CAN they be so THICK ? We've learnt never to expect respect but this is off the Wall. Is it right Pit Bill is in the same boat ? I don't have any info really. Same outrageous behaviour from NUFC administration and management. And how many more stories are there outside this bbs with no chance of doing anything.   This is War. This is the final insult.   I accept that from out here (Hong Kong) I may not know everything - I don't know Pit Bill as well as I do Rik and we go back. I do know that Rik is a Geordie who has been waiting for SIX YEARS for the right to have a seat in SJP for himself and his son to watch the Lads. And who put his heart and soul with his unique daftness into the Award-Winning Best Fans Website in the Premiership, 'Rik's Place' (which the idiots don't even see or use.)   Plans will be made in a calmer and colder frame of mind....God help them when the Geordies really decide to stand up for one of their own. I haven't stopped spitting blood since I heard the news. Off now. United we stand - divided, those bastards will continue to treat us the way they do. (I'm trying to be a lady about this but it ain't easy !) Enough is enough.-- val (val@thegallowgate.com), July 15, 2000. Forgot to say that it Doesn't Have to get the stage of our poor benighted Club's name being dragged through the press again. But there will be way. Remember that old Serenity belief. That you 'Accept the things you cannot change and Change the things you cannot accept". I believe this is the latter  Thanks everyone, but what we must remember is it isn't just about getting Me, Tony , True and the others on here , tickets for next season, It's about finding out just how many people are in the same boat and trying to get them to find seats for all of us. Perhaps they could do this by returning part of the Milburn stand (£1375 bit) to normal priced tickets, even if it's just for a single season. I can't believe that all of these expensive seats , some almost in the corners have been taken at those prices. If they have then the only alternative (if they really have sold out) would be to open a section made out of the away fans enclosure and offer those like me a season ticket for this area at a reduced price, with the understanding that I may have to move for games if the away fans take up there full allocation. I believe the area for Away fans take up 3,000 seats, and only 4 or 5 clubs would bring that many fans. It's not ideal, but it is a solution for next season. I think a lot of people in the heavens may not take up their option to renew in the Level 7 area in 12 months time, when they see the poor view that they are getting from up there.  I noticed a posting about Pit Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, but he read about my situation, and having not received his application form rushed up on Wednesday night (after they would have received mine) and has now been given a seat in the area that I applied to be in. I don't for one moment begrudge him this, as he's also been on the list for a long time, It just raises the point about me applying for one for me and one for my son (AT A LOWER PRICE). A club committed to seeing more youngsters in the ground wouldn't exclude my application due to it having a lower value to the club financially , would they? -- Rik (rik@ntlsports.com), July 15, 2000. Many more postings were placed on the message board over the next few days. Letters and E Mails were written to the box office and board members of St James' park. Eventually I was allocated the two very good seats "In the heart of James' park" as the Radio advert says. From what I can gather I'll be sitting , with my son, very close to the new (£995) sports bar, and at a fraction of the cost. Obviously kicking up such a fuss didn't influence the allocation , or did it? I'll never know. As for the others affected? I have heard from some that have also been told that they will be getting a seat, but there still seems to be a lot of fans that were on the original list who at this moment have not been told wether or not they have a seat for next season. Newcastle United have to change the way they treat the fans. Whoever made the'first come first served decision , should come clean and say that in retrospect it was a VERY BAD decision. The way in which the letters were staggered so that not everyone received their applications at the same time was appalling. I'm sure that there will be many fans who return from there holidays to find application forms through their door, they will either not get a seat or have an inferior seat this surely isn't fair. To celebrate my long wait, I've just been out to buy my new top for the new season. Look out for a geek wearing a shirt with www. Ntl: sports .com printed across the front with a happy 8 year old by his side. Looks like I'll have to give up watching games in a semi drunken state and become a model geordie father , taking his son to the match every other weekend. Thanks to everyone who has contacted me, If you still have no joy, please persist with phoning the box office, when you eventually get through explain your situation, I'm sure that they will be able to find seats for the most persistent applicants if they have been waiting for a few years. If not, get in touch with me. I'll keep you posted on further outcomes on this page.