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----- Original Message -----
To: Ashley M Coogan
Sent: 06 October 2000 23:56
Subject: Your questions
Dear Ashley,
Thank you for your interest. I do remember
you and am flattered by your
interest and questions.
I am not an
expert though, just an interested person, so I hope you won't give
my
particular thoughts undue weight.
You may also be interested in my guest
essay here
http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/slocks.htm which is a summary of my
researches.
<< -What lead you to start
a website dedicated to leaving Christianity? >>
Initially I just
put my story and a couple of previous discussions online to
refer people to
when on debate lists (an example of such a debate/discussion
is here http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/seek.html).
Others were
doing this and it seemed the polite thing to do, rather than
repeat lengthy
arguments. Mainly though, I felt I had accrued a lot of useful
links from my
time on the "extian" (i.e. ex-Christian) mailing list and my
reading of the
ex-tian archives. There are already many sites about people
leaving
Christianity and collections of testimonies around the Internet, but
to my
knowledge no central place that links to them all. I eventually thought
I
could carve a niche by providing a meta-resource to all these
collections
of stories. It was not my intention to provide very much in terms
of
arguments against Christianity, as there are already so many
sites
doing this. I became more concerned to provide support for
new
de-converts from Christianity. Virtually all of my arguments given
against
Christianity have been shaken out of me by Christians during feedback
and
other discussions.
The Internet is one of the few places where
those who leave Christianity can
turn easily for help and find people who
have already been through this
leaving process. Often new deconverts feel
that they are in a very lonely
situation as there is nobody around who will
sympathetically listen to their
thoughts. Christians are almost always only
interested in "finding out where
we went wrong." Therefore it can be a great
thrill and relief to find others
with similar stories to see how normal ones
feelings are and to see the
healthy lives of those who are years further
on.
<< -What has the public response to your site been?
>>
Interesting and wide ranging! Mainly I tried to imagine what I
would be
interested in when I was a doubting Christian and shortly after I
left
Christianity. So I have been pleased to see that about a third of people
who
write share some of their experiences and often comment on how pleased
they
are to find so many resources from similar people (imagine the scenario
of
deconverting from Christianity in the bible belt in the midst of a
very
religious family!) Quite a few just write short thank you
notes.
Another third or so used to write emails to explain where I have
gone wrong.
Although most are reasonably polite, some are quite aggressive
with the caps
lock key on, sometimes with threats about what will happen to
me in the
hereafter. I have managed to reduce this by use of the email page
which
people have to read before they can find my address (as you will
know!)
Since then this sort of thing has reduced significantly, but not
disappeared.
The rest are somewhat like yours, and are probably the most
interesting - i.e.
reflective emails with genuine questions. Some just want
to chat, bounce some
ideas around or ask for further information. I have had
a few long lasting and
in depth discussions with some of these people, but I
have not directly put
examples on my site, rather just weave the odd insight
gained into other
discussions.
If you want some examples of the things
people write see my guestbook and
feedback. These are only examples though,
because it gets too repetitive
to put them all up. If you want some more
personal, or scary ones, then let
me know (I will have to keep the personal
ones anon though).
<< -How do you feel the Internet has
affected your ability to make your
viewpoint known?
>>
Fantastically! I can talk about what I want to my hearts
content. It is good
therapy, very cathartic and a great way to learn -
discussing ideas which
often lead to more research. Until I was online this
was restricted to putting
ideas into notebooks, and the occasional
conversations with friends (usually
in the pub!)
It is not just about
making my viewpoint known though, as discussing on NG's,
mailing lists and
private email lets me test my ideas and compare experiences.
It's the closest
I can find to getting some peer review.
However, I don't feel these are
"my" ideas particularly, rather I am reporting
the wider picture as I see it
out there. The wealth and variety of experience
and reflection in some of the
stories I have read is quite enlightening. There
are very few ideas I have
that I haven't found expressed in one way or
another by other people during
my time surfing, reading and discussing. I think
some are attracted by
discussions of emotions as well as ideas, which
is why I have left my story
on the first page. I almost relegated it to a link, but I
found that so many
people responded to it that it was obviously capturing
people's imagination,
so I left it up to give something substantial and
personal on the first page.
Also I think casual surfers often don't go much
further than a home page, so
it's good to have something to chew on.
[Note (31st Oct 2000), I have since relegated it to a link - see
what's new 17th October 2000].
Finally, I not only want to share
thoughts and discoveries, but also to learn
as much as I can. I frequently
surf on using my own website as a starting
point.
<< -Have your
beliefs affected others (that you know of) because of the
information they
got off your website? >>
That is more difficult to be sure of. Some
have written to say they find it
encouraging to see similar people and feel
less alone in a very Christian
society because of the resources I link to.
Others say they finally feel
understood and realise they are sane! That was
the main reason for my
site once it was a reasonable size, so I'm glad it
seems to work to that
extent. I don't know if I've really influenced anyone
to seriously question
Christianity though - I think it takes many factors to
do that, although from
feedback like Jim Moretz's
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/feedback/jim_moretz.html
my
ideas, or similar from others, may have caused some reflection.
I
have definitely caused some to change opinion through private email, not
to
the extent of abandoning Christianity, but to the extent of changing
minor
views and I did get one person to accept evolution in private
discussion.
These are hard work though, and I'm still trying to weave some of
these
discussions into articles for my site (but where's the time!) Of course
others
have also influenced me - particularly in understanding the nature
of
fundamentalism, since I was used to quite a laid back and moderate
Christian
atmosphere when I was a Christian.
<<-What
is your opinion of the manner in which the Internet will affect
organized
religion? >>
There is no doubt that on an individual level people
leave Christianity due to
what they read and argue about on the Internet. An
example is Peter Kirby, who
went on to become the owner of the "Xtianity"
mailing list (a list for
discussing if Christianity is true).
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/individual_decon_stories.html#peterkirby
Other
examples are Chris Ashton
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~cashton/atheism/page8.html
Anon http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/tsr/tsr6.html
Wayne
VanWeerthuizen http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/tsr/tsr10.html
I
have discussed this on the "Xtianity" mailing list and have seen it
discussed
elsewhere. It seems that on a number of debating forums
(alt.atheism,
alt.bible.errancy, Xtianity etc.) people occasionally deconvert,
but nobody
could think of an example of a conversion to Christianity on a
debating
panel.
As for the larger question of what will happen to organised
religion, that is
too difficult for me! Nevertheless, I think religion will
probably continue to
change and also have revivals, slumps, reactions and
transformations for
a long time. It still amazes me that there are
fundamentalists in the modern
world, but even so they are a long way from the
fundamentalists of Martin
Luther's time. Likewise any fundamentalists and
other religious folk of a
few hundred years time are likely to look very
heretical to today's Christians
(but then many current Christians look
heretical to other contemporary
Christians!). How much will be due to the
Internet, I am not sure, although
my guess is that if people are aware of the
level of debate and research
that has been done, it will be harder to merely
accept what is traditionally
taught from the pulpit. Anyone can now read the
deliberations of scholars
like those of the Jesus Seminar or the Sea of Faith
- these things are no
longer only accessible to those at liberal theological
seminaries - see
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/study_res.html
It
is also much easier to track down and buy their previously obscure
books.
From reading testimonies this is exactly what happens to many people -
they
research and loose faith. I am not so sure though that most people have
the
energy and inclination for so much research. The information may be
out
there and easily accessed now, but you can't make people read it or even
be
interested!
I wrote this in my "guest essay" at
http://www.eclipse.co.uk/thoughts/slocks.htm
"In
our modern age with ease of access to information many of us are still
bought
up to believe the unexamined religion of our culture. It is not routine
at
church or school to research the historical claims of Christianity or
to
critically examine its dogmas. The fact that this examination has
even
occurred is rarely known, neither is the extent of the criticism
appreciated.
What percentage of Christians have done their "extra-Christian
homework" and
have well thumbed critical books on their bookshelves? Most
study is
devotional or inclined towards "what is God saying here?" Indeed,
most
Christians are surrounded by other Christians, seldom in an
environment
promoting critical examination of beliefs. It is usually left to
the personal
research of the curious amongst us, or the chance discovery of a
student of
religion to stumble across the historical, psychological,
philosophical,
anthropological and sociological problems of
Christianity."
It would be interesting to know how many (or what
proportion of) people are
becoming Christians due to what they read on the
Internet. More interesting
would be the influence on those who give equal
time to both sides of the
argument. However I doubt people really give truly
equal time unless they are
going through a transitionary period and are
trying to initially find out and
assess what both sides have to say. Even
then, I suspect when committed
but doubtful, people read opposing arguments
with fascination but nevertheless
some trepidation. Maybe you could tell me
from your researches when your
results are in.
Personally, I still
read Christian apologetics, to see what they are currently
saying and how
strong or weak I find it, but admittedly not as much as the
other side, which
I find more interesting and enlightening. I have had a belly
full of
Christian apologetics over the years, but keep my hand in to be fair
and up
to date!
<< Thanks so much for your help >>
Thank
you for asking. As you know, people love talking about themselves and
their
ideas, so you were bound to get a response! :-)
<< I believe that
you have a viewpoint that is not voiced enough and I
would love to be able to
include anything you could share. >>
It's kind of you to say so. If
you don't mind, what was it that attracted you
to asking my opinion? What did
you find on or via my site that interested
you or was of value? I would like
to develop or at least think about the parts
that are found most thought
provoking by a range of people.
If you could send me a summary of the
results of your researches then I
would be very interested to read what you
find and to hear any of your other
comments.
I hope that lot is of use
to you and good luck in your
project.
Regards,
Steve
----------------
Leaving
Christianity: www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/decon.html
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